Gavin Newsom Argues for National Carbon Tax

Gavin Newsom Argues for National Carbon Tax

Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

In this exclusive Fresh Dialogues interview, Gavin Newsom, Lt. Governor of California and new father, explains why the U.S. requires a national carbon tax. Newsom was attending the NY Times Global Forum in San Francisco, June 20, and shared his views on climate change, oil companies and his dream of being Governor of California one day.

Newsom, whose wife Jennifer Siebel, just gave birth to their third child on July 3rd, frames the argument in a way that even a five-year old can understand.
“You wanna move the mouse, you gotta move the cheese,” says Newsom, who describes other measures to combat climate change, such as composting, green building, plastic bag bans etc., as “playing a bit in the margins.”
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Newsom argues that putting a price on carbon is the real macro solution to climate change.  Nevertheless, he praises the entrepreneurial spirit of many city mayors who have proved that you can grow your economy and reduce your Green House Gas emissions. Local case in point: San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed’s Green Vision

Here are some highlights of our conversation

On Oil Companies and Interesting Bed Fellows

Newsom: “Some of the big oil companies are talking about a carbon tax as they’re more and more concerned about cap and trade…especially in California with AB 32. Now they’re saying, ‘now wait…a carbon tax may make sense.’ Interesting bedfellows now. I think there’s a different dialogue that could potentially be held. I’m not suggesting for a moment that Chevron is saying ‘time for a carbon tax’ but in the private conversations that I’ve had with a lot of these big energy producers, you don’t have that negative reaction that we had four or five years ago…”

Fresh Dialogues: What’s in it for the oil companies?

Newsom: “I don’t want to put words in their mouth. The bottom line is: what most of these big producers want is consistency across jurisdictions.”

On Leaning In to Green Growth

“I want to see a standard that could bring this country back to international prominence in terms of leaning into a low carbon green growth strategy, so that we can dramatically change the way we produce and consume energy and lead the world as a pace setter in terms of efforts to reduce Green House Gas emissions and radically reorient our economy in a 21st Century manner that could produce jobs and address stresses on the economy: inequality, lack of middle income…and create sustainable opportunities.”

On Being Governor of California

“No one knows what the future holds politically speaking. I have got an entrepreneurial energy. I like doing, not just being. I’ve long talked about the position as governor, as a platform to really engage in bottom up thinking and go local in terms of economic development strategies, workforce development strategies and find substantive solutions to deal with the issue of climate change. So inverting the pyramid, but being there in Sacramento to begin to scale those best practices is something I’ve long wanted to do.”
See more videos and stories on energy policy  and join the conversation at our Fresh Dialogues Facebook Page

This exclusive Fresh Dialogues interview was recorded at the New York Times Global Forum in San Francisco, June 20, 2013. The forum organizers provided the painful background music, which sadly couldn’t be removed from the audio track.

Steven Chu: On Obama, Carbon Tax and Cooking Tips

Steven Chu: On Obama, Carbon Tax and Cooking Tips

In this exclusive Fresh Dialogues interview, former Energy Secretary Steven Chu shares his reaction to Obama’s major speech on climate change; explains how a carbon tax will drive U.S. competitiveness; has a message for climate deniers; and even shares tips for being more energy efficient in the kitchen. When did you last get cooking tips from a Nobel Prize winning physicist who’s been described as the One Hundred Billion Dollar Man? It’s time to listen up folks! It’s time to listen up folks!

Here are some highlights of our conversation:

On Obama’s Climate Speech (which focused more on climate change, and less on green jobs)

“This is a real issue. We have to do something about it!”

When asked if he wrote or was involved in writing the speech, Chu joked that he has ‘been involved’ for 4 1/4 years and recently regaled several heads of state (including President Obama) with his powerpoint pitch for raising appliance efficiency standards, reminding them that “there’s money to be made…and saved.”

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On Carbon Tax

“A carbon tax must be non-regressive and revenue neutral. It will drive efficiency…competitiveness. Educating the public (on climate change, energy policy) is very important, but it’s about economic opportunities and (creating) a growth market. Change will be partly market driven.”

On Climate Change Deniers

“I’d put them in the same category as people who said, in the 60’s and 70’s, that you haven’t proved to me that smoking causes cancer.”

On Chu’s vision for distributed energy

“Distribution companies partnering with the private sector have the opportunity to access fairly inexpensive capital and be part owners in distributed power and energy storage in benign environments, like inside a home or building. When you do that, the price of electricity will go down (3 to 4 times). All of a sudden utility companies will be in a growth business…Utilities should wake up and see there’s money to be made!”

Chu cited the advantages of black-out reduction thanks to demand control; and underlined the multitude of opportunities that  low-priced software and sensing equipment offer.

Steven Chu shares cooking tips with Alison van Diggelen of Fresh DialoguesOn Cooking with Chu

Tip #1: “If you’re boiling a pot of water: if you put a lid on it, it comes to boil much more quickly.”

Tip #2: “Pick the right sized pot, don’t pick a pot five times bigger, twice as big.”

– Steven Chu, Nobel Prize winner in physics 1997, Former Energy Secretary, 2009-13.

No word yet on whether Steven Chu is planning to give up his new job at Stanford University for a prime time cooking show…Though we hear there is an opening.

 

 

The interview was recorded at the Silicon Valley Energy Summit, presented by the Precourt Energy Efficiency Center, Stanford University on June 28, 2013. Photos by Lina Broydo.

See Keynotes by Steven Chu and Jeff Bingaman at Vimeo and more interviews about energy policy at Fresh Dialogues YouTube Channel.

Dianne Feinstein Plans Carbon Tax, Argues Against Keystone, Oil & Gas Subsidies

Dianne Feinstein Plans Carbon Tax, Argues Against Keystone, Oil & Gas Subsidies

Senator Dianne Feinstein shared her plans to introduce a new “carbon fee” bill, during a press conference Wednesday in downtown San Francisco.

“I think a carbon fee is growing in popularity,” said Feinstein, after an appearance at the Commonwealth Club. Her plans follow President Obama’s SOTU call for “market based solutions to climate change,” and a growing consensus among experts in favor of using the taxation system to control carbon dioxide emissions.

She referred to her colleague, Senator Barbara Boxer’s recent bill (co-sponsored by Sen. Bernie Sanders), which proposed a “carbon fee and dividend scheme” that would tax carbon emitters, such as coalmines, at the source. Here’s the rationale:

  1. By increasing the price of fossil fuel in the market…
  2. It levels the playing field between carbon-based fuels and renewable fuels, such as wind and solar, making renewables more competitive and attractive to consumers and investors.
  3. A portion of the “dividend” (the carbon “fee” proceeds) would be refunded to US residents.

Similar schemes have been implemented in British Columbia, Sweden and Ireland  with some success. The aim is to encourage consumers to see the true cost of their energy choices. The fee represents some of the externalities of choosing fossil fuel, such as particulate pollution and greenhouse gases, which contribute to climate change.

Feinstein responds to a climate change question from Alison van DiggelenFeinstein’s proposal was short on details, but she confirmed, “It’s my intention to introduce a fee of $10 a ton and we’ll see what happens to it.”

The Boxer-Sanders proposal is for a tax (or “fee”) of  $20 per ton of carbon. Presumably Feinstein feels it’ll  be more palatable to start at a lower level and gradually phase in a higher tax over several years.

Feinstein acknowledged that with other issues stealing center stage (notably saber-rattling in North Korea and the ongoing domestic gun control debate), climate change is not currently on the government’s “high priority list,” so it’s hard to predict what progress the government will achieve.

Nevertheless, Feinstein was vocal on the topic of climate change and bullish about renewable energy during an earlier interview with the Commonwealth Club’s Greg Dalton:

On the threat of Climate Change Dianne Feinstein talks with Greg Dalton, Commonwealth Club

“People don’t really understand. They think the earth is immutable. They think we can’t destroy it, that it’s here to stay. It’s not so… As we fill the atmosphere with pollutants: methane, carbon dioxide, other things…it warms the earth. And it begins with animal habitat disappearing, the ocean beginning to rise, more violent hurricanes, tornadoes…drought is more prevalent.”

“What’s going to be the ultimate change is weather. People see weather, they see the devastation and so eventually people are going to come around to support restrictions on carbon dioxide, maybe a fee on the use of carbon to replace our deficit, our debt. A $20 fee (per ton of carbon or methane equivalent) is like $1.2 Trillion in revenue over 10 years.  If you just take half that: $600 Billion.”

“I wouldn’t say there’s much (support in the Senate) but I would say this: people are coming to realize now… climate change is getting worse. Actually  since 2008, ‘good energy’ has doubled. Electric cars are being more prevalent, hybrids are being more prevalent. People are saving money. Good things are happening. The question is: can we really bite the bullet and make the decision that we’re going to save the planet?”

On the Keystone Pipeline

“I’m told the area in Alberta (Canada) is bigger than the state of Florida, I’m told it’s a forested area which they mow down and begin to dig the huge giant lakes which they pour chemicals in to produce this form of tar sands oil. The earth is defaced forever.”

“Now we have to make up our minds: do we want to deface large portions of our earth forever? I don’t think so because we’re making progress on clean energy and that ought to really be where we go.”

“Some people say if the pipeline isn’t built north-south through the center of our country, they’re only going to do it east to west and send it to China. That’s not a good argument.”

Feinstein urged the audience to read the latest article on tar sands from National Geographic.

On California’s Monterey Shale Reserves

“I don’t think candidly that it’s all that necessary. There will be no oil drilling off the coast of California, if Senator Boxer and I prevail, and we have so far. My emphasis would be on clean energy: the wind farms, the solar facilities and there’s so much research going on on different forms of fuel. Leave those fossil fuels alone because they pollute the atmosphere.” Read more on the country’s largest shale oil resource from KQED.

Photo by Alison van Diggelen

Photo by Alison van Diggelen

On Tesla’s Model S

“I sat on one (a Tesla Model S) out at the Tesla Fremont plant. I kind of dented the fender. But anyway…” (laughter)

Feinstein drives a Lexus hybrid

On California’s water shortages

“We’re on our way to a much drier climate…the Sierra Nevada snowpack’s drying up and it’s very serious…The key is: we need to store more water from the wet years and hold it for the dry years and this environmentalists don’t like. It may mean raising a couple of dams (eg Shasta)…I do believe that the time is now to have a storage water bond. The most important thing we can do for our state is to hold water from the wet years for the dry years and we should get that done (or) we’re going to lose our agriculture… I live in Washington now for a lot of the time and I can tell you the crops grown in California taste much better than most places in the world.”

On subsidies to oil and gas

I think the day has come for subsidies to go for industries other than startups like some of the clean energy…solar. As you know, everything is “cut cut cut” back there (DC) right now. With sequestration cutting another $85 Billion before the beginning of the fiscal year and the amount goes up. So there’s going to be cut after cut after cut. And they’re big cuts. So I think we need to look at tax reform and we need to look at all those deductions and remove a lot of them and we also need to look at our entitlements programs.”

Elon Musk: On Obama, Climate Change & Government Regulation (Transcript)

Elon Musk: On Obama, Climate Change & Government Regulation (Transcript)

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

As the nation anticipates a “climate friendly” State of the Union speech from President Obama Tuesday, let’s take a look at what one of Silicon Valley’s most successful innovators and job creators has to say about the government’s role in climate change and innovation.

Last month, I interviewed Tesla Motors and SpaceX CEO, Elon Musk at the Computer History Museum in Silicon Valley and asked him what specifically President Obama can do to stimulate the economy. He acknowledges that presidents can only do so much, saying,”You’re actually like the captain of a very huge ship and have a small rudder.”

Musk argues that too much government regulation can stand in the way of innovation, especially in the auto industry; and is generally in favor of minimal government intervention in the economy. On climate change, however, he was forceful and described our oil based, carbon intensive economy as creating a “crazy chemical experiment on the atmosphere” with likely catastrophic consequences. He concludes that taxing carbon is vital.
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Here is the transcript of our conversation:

Alison van Diggelen: Do you feel the government is standing in the way of innovation at all?

Elon Musk: Well sometimes…I don’t think the government tends to stand in the way of innovation but it can over-regulate industries to the point where innovation becomes very difficult. The auto industry used to be a great hotbed of innovation at the beginning of the 20th Century. But now there are so many regulations that are intended to protect consumers…I mean the body of regulation for cars could fill this room. It’s just crazy how much regulation there is. Down to what the headlamps are supposed to be like. They even specify some of the elements of the user interface on the dashboard…some of these are completely anachronistic because they’re related back to the days when you had a little light that would illuminate an image. So we had to reserve space on the instrument panel of the Model S for where all of the indicators…that a car would have…you know you’ve got these little lights…

Alison van Diggelen: Check engine or whatever…

Elon Musk: Yeah…all these little things. There is a whole bunch of them. ‘We can’t have anything else in that space. ‘ But how about we have one space and render a different graphic? ‘Oh no, because people are expecting to see them in this space.’ Nobody is expecting to see them in that space.

Alison van Diggelen: So you can’t argue with these regulations?

Elon Musk: Well you can argue with them, but not with much success. (laughter). You can actually get these things changed, but it takes ages. Like one of the things we’re trying to get is: why should you have side mirrors if you could have say, tiny video cameras and have them display the image inside the car? But there are all these regulations saying you have to have side mirrors. I went and met with the Secretary of Transport and like, can you change this regulation…? Still nothing has happened and that was two years ago.

Alison van Diggelen: So you’re banging your head against the wall…

Elon Musk: We need to get these regulations changed.

Elon Musk interview with Alison van DiggelenAlison van Diggelen: So talking of government, President Obama is obviously trying to do what he can…if you had five minutes with President Obama, what would you advise him for one: stimulating the economy and entrepreneurship and (two)  creating jobs. Is there one thing if he could successfully get through that would be a big stimulus?

Elon Musk: I think actually…the reality of being president is that you’re actually like the captain of a very huge ship and have a small rudder (laughter). If there was a button that a president could push that said ‘economic prosperity,’ they’d be hitting that button real fast…

Alison van Diggelen: Full steam ahead.

Elon Musk: You can imagine…the speed of light, how fast they’d be pressing that button. That’s called the re-election button. I’m not sure how much the president can really do. I’m generally a fan of minimal government interference in the economy. The government should be the referee but not the player. And there shouldn’t be too many referees. But there is an exception, which is when there’s an un-priced externality, such as the CO2 capacity of the oceans and atmosphere. So, when you have an un-priced externality, then the normal market mechanisms don’t work and then it’s the government’s role to intervene in a way that’s sensible. The best way to intervene is to assign a proper price to the common good that is being consumed.

Alison van Diggelen: So you’re saying there should be a tax on gas?

Elon Musk: There should be a tax on carbon. If the bad thing is carbon accumulation in the atmosphere, then there needs to be a tax on that. And then you can get rid of all subsidies and all, everything else. It seems logical that there should be a tax on things that are most likely to be bad. That’s why we tax cigarettes and alcohol. These are probably bad for you, certainly cigarettes are (laughter). So you want to err on the side of taxing things that are probably bad. And not tax things that are good. Given that there is a need to gather tax to pay for federal government…We should shift the tax burden to bad things and then adjust the tax on bad things according to whatever’s going to result in behavior that we think is beneficial for the future.

I think currently that what we’re doing right now, which is mining and burning trillions of tons of hydrocarbons that used to be buried very deep underground, and now we’re sticking them in the atmosphere and running this crazy chemical experiment on the atmosphere. And then we’ve got the oil and gas companies that have ungodly amounts of money. You can’t expect them to roll over and die. They don’t do that. What they much prefer to do is spend enormous amounts of money lobbying and running bogus ad campaigns to preserve their situation.

It’s a lot like tobacco companies in the old days. They used to run these ad campaigns with doctors, guys pretending they were doctors, essentially implying that smoking is good for you, and having pregnant mothers on ads, smoking.

Alison van Diggelen: Do you have a message for the climate change skeptics and the big oil people?

Elon Musk: Well, as far as climate change skeptics…I believe in the scientific method and one should have a healthy skepticism of things in general…if you pursue things from a scientific standpoint, you always look at things probabilistically and not definitively…so a lot of times if someone is a skeptic in the science community, what they’re saying is that they’re they’re not sure that it’s 100% certain that this is the case. But that’s not the point. The point is, to look at it from the other side. To say: What’s the percentage chance that this could be catastrophic for some meaningful percentage of earth’s population? Is it greater than 1%? Is it even 1%? If it is even 1%, why are we running this experiment?

Alison van Diggelen: You’ve called it Russian roulette. We’re playing Russian roulette with the atmosphere…

Elon Musk: We’re playing Russian roulette and as each year goes by we’re loading more rounds in the chamber. It’s not wise. And what makes it super insane is that we’re going to run out of oil anyway. It’s not like there’s some infinite oil supply. We are going to run out of it. We know we have to get to a sustainable means of transportation, no matter what. So why even run the experiment? It’s the world’s dumbest experiment (applause).

 

Read more Transcript Excerpts from our 2013 interview:

On Musk’s South African Childhood, Iron Man Inspiration

On Being the Reluctant CEO of Tesla Motors

On Steve Jobs, Innovation and Critics

On Team Building, Warren Buffett, and Mars

 

Krugman: Carbon Tax Lesson Plan

Krugman: Carbon Tax Lesson Plan

By Alison van Diggelen, host of Fresh Dialogues

Today, we are launching a new feature on Fresh Dialogues – lesson plans – to help teachers build captivating ways of educating their students about climate change and the green economy. This is possible thanks to Lisa Lubliner, our new Fresh Dialogues Education Expert. She will be matching some compelling Fresh Dialogues videos with topics such as Green Innovation, Batteries and Storage, Saving Energy at Home and School, and Fuel Cells 101. Check back soon at our Educators Page where we will list lesson plans as they are added. Got ideas for background info and resources? Share them here or on our Facebook Page.

Lesson Plan: Stashing CO2 in Rocks

Carbon Capture and Sequestration

Grades 6-8

In this activity, students will learn more about carbon sequestration by creating a carbonated beverage out of apple juice and dry ice. This experiment illustrates how carbon dioxide can be stored in a substance. Students will compare and contrast the results to determine if liquid carbonation is an effective method for carbon sequestration.

Lesson background

One of the leading causes of global climate change is carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that traps and stores heat from the sun that would normally escape from Earth’s atmosphere into space. Though some heating is beneficial to life on Earth, too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere leads to dramatic changes in the Earth’s climate. One important field of research aimed at combating climate change is carbon sequestration. Carbon sequestration is the science of taking carbon dioxide out of the air and storing it away. Scientists have been experimenting with different methods of carbon sequestration through chemical, biological or physical means.

Subject Standards

Subject Matter: Physical Science/Geology
National Standards: NS.5-8.1, NS.5-8.2

Source Links

Ira Flatow Science Friday Blog  – Check out the excellent Science Friday video that goes with the topic.

Background information and extension activities

Have students view this short Fresh Dialogues video showing Nobel Prize winning economist, Paul Krugman explain the cap and trade system for carbon and why he thinks climate legislation could work. Here’s the interview transcript

About our Fresh Dialogues Education Expert: Lisa Lubliner is a respected and energetic educator with a varied background in teaching and administration.  She has worked as a teacher (Moreland District, California – Teacher of the Year), served as a Gifted and Talented Education consultant, evaluated schools for the State of California and created a successful model for Independent Study Programs in the San Francisco Bay Area.  She has an extensive background in alternative education and strives to engage students through real-world projects that emphasize critical thinking and the creation of action plans.

For more videos, check out our Fresh Dialogues YouTube Channel

Check out more lesson plans in the Education Tab